Recent Experiences with Right Wing Christians

Here Comes the Crazy…

I don’t really associate with Right Wing Christians in my daily life.  There are certainly some that I know and work with, but the relationships are cordial and the conversations never revolve around religion or politics.  I hear what they think and say from the news, newspapers, and other online sources.  However, I had never really conversed with them.  I decided to give it a go.  I had no illusions of winning any arguments or converting them to atheism or anything like that.  I just wanted to see what they really think.  Some of you who follow me on Twitter may be wondering what the hell I have been doing on there this week.  For those of you don’t follow me, let me explain.

I reached out to some very popular Right Wing Christians on Twitter.  I have no idea who they are, but they all had at least 10k followers, some were over 20k.  I figure if they have that many followers, people who think like they do, must really like what they have to say.  Boy, was I in for a surprise.  Before, you all think I am naïve, I expected strong disagreement, some name calling, some ignorance of facts, some bible thumping—that sort of stuff—and I got it.  All of it and then some.

Here was how I started the conversation.  I trolled (yes I know…I suck at life for doing it) these people until I found someone who was upset about the nativity thing in Santa Monica, CA.  I then asked them why they were upset about it.  They responded in the manner I describe below based only on a question and a look at my profile.  After their first response, I then politely noted that we Atheists just don’t like the idea of government favoring Christianity on public grounds over all other religions or atheism & that doing so may violate the First Amendment.  That is it.  Two things struck me in these conversations.  First was the immediate tone.  Of the twenty people I tweeted that to, either they or one of their followers responded most often with something like, “FUCK YOU ATHEIST SCUM” most often followed by some variation of “STOP RUINING OUR COUNTRY”.  And yes they were in all capital letters and yes FUCK YOU were the first two words. This I was not prepared for.  I mean sure, I expected them not to like me, but who starts off a conversation with the words “FUCK YOU” (in caps)?  The only answer I can come up with would emotionally unbalanced people.

These people are some seriously pissed off people, whether I like that or not is irrelevant, they are angry.  They also seem to think that if they yell louder than anyone else they will emerge victorious.  Most the tweets, and I am talking well over a hundred, were in at least partial if not all capital letters.  Interesting.

What I find curious about this is that there can be no dialogue with this group of people.  They won’t have it.  Again, I was under no illusions that I would change hearts and minds, but thought perhaps a rational conversation would be possible.  It wasn’t.  They continuously told me I was stupid, dumb, a cunt, an idiot, a waste of oxygen, going to hell, a disciple of the devil, un-American, a communist, a socialist…that’s all I can remember, and those words were all in capital letters during the exchanges.  What prompted these responses after the initial tweet? My simply asking questions about why they believe what they believe.  No form of meaningful dialogue occurred except for two people, and one of those is not really meaningful, but the fellow was not as vitriolic.  He just keeps reminding me I am a stupid idiot.

The second thing that struck in talking with these people was how sure they are that they are right.  Between the caps lock name calling.  I was told in no uncertain terms exactly why I was wrong about what I thought—in both religious and governmental matters.  The interesting thing to note was that their arguments were terrible.  None of them have even a basic understanding of our country’s history, nor of their religion’s history.  They are not well versed in Constitutional Law or Christian apologetics or science.  I hate to sound like them, I really do, but the only comparison I can make is that it was like arguing with a ninth or tenth grader.  They know they are right and are blissfully unaware of the facts, or even what the real conversation should be about.  They think they know everything, as I did at that age, but as we all know now, we knew very little.

In some ways, I got what I expected.  However, I did not expect that much hate and that much ignorance.  The people I talked with reach over 200k Twitter followers if you combine them all.  This is a small sample to be sure, but I did not just cherry pick people I thought were nuts.  This is very troubling to me as an American.  Our country has much work that is needed, yet the people who support the extreme right, the Christian Right, and Tea Party are not even willing to engage in conversation.  At least not with me.  I think of the statements that FL Congressman Allan West made over his career, and how he was labeled a Tea Party darling, and it frightens me.  Those are the kinds of things I encountered in my brief foray to the “other side”.  Also, please bear in mind, for the purposes of this post, I was only referring to people that I had multiple tweets with.  I lost count of the one and done tweeters who were all vitriol and never tweeted me back after that first time.  These people were the followers of my original twenty.  There were well over 50 one time insult tweets hurled my way.

How can we move forward with this type of attitude being so dominant and growing?  I feel for the people on the Right who are rational.  I completely understand why they have been drowned out by the very loud Far Right.  The GOP needs to make some changes if our country is going to move forward in a productive manner—though I am not sure how that will happen.  The Democrats do NOT have all of the best of ideas, the far Religious Right has none, and the moderate Right has no voice…great….

Thanks for reading.  I look forward to your comments.

—-RB

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59 thoughts on “Recent Experiences with Right Wing Christians

    1. Cephus from Redlands, CA, United States

      Seriously. I show a lot more respect for the theists than they ever do for me. I avoid posting on religious message boards, I don't go around to Christian blogs and insult them, I don't follow religious hashtags on Twitter, etc. If they come to me, then find. I'll have it out with them. I just don't see the point in going to seek them out. I'd rather they just didn't exist in the first place, why would I want to chase them around?

      Reply
    2. reasonbeing from Duluth, MN, United States Post author

      I was curious to hear why they believe what they believe, in their own words, from regular people. From what I had seen on television (and from my own parents) I assumed that much of what they believe came from ignorance, I wanted to check that out. I expected some strong disapproval of my atheism as well. I did not expect nearly the ignorance or vitriol that I got. Basically–I wanted to see if I was exaggerating my views on these people…turns out I was underestimating it…at least from my small experiment.

      I also didn't really "troll" in the typical annoying sense. I was quite polite, friendly, and rational…in the same way many theists are when they comment on our blogs and twitter feed—not all our out for a fight, many add some positive things to the discussion, etc. I didn't go "looking to cause an argument" the way many trolls do.

      Reply
  1. hausdorff from Oak Park, MI, United States

    oh, this is why you set up the backup twitter account, now it makes sense. It seemed like a strange move out of the blue.

    I saw a very small portion of one of these conversations and looked at a few of the profiles of the people you were arguing with. One guy's description caught my eye, he said he would automatically block any liberal, atheist,…and a few other categories that I can't recall at the moment. He was basically announcing that he lives in a bubble and he's going to stay that way.

    "How can we move forward with this type of attitude being so dominant and growing?"

    I don't think we talk to those people, we talk to people who are more reasonable and willing to have an actual discussion and we try to change the mood of the country. The LGBT community has basically done this right? The people who are determined to hate gay people will hate them forever, and yet more and more people around them think gays are just as good as anyone else. You don't start with the guy who will block you on twitter just for being an atheist, you start with the reasonable guy who has always heard that atheists are bad but has never talked to one and is curious about it.

    It's like in video games, you don't start a new character and run right for the last boss battle, you start with level 1 trash mobs who can give you experience and new items. You level up and get new armor and weapons and new abilities and eventually you will be prepared to kill the final boss and restart the game on a higher difficulty…wait, what were we talking about?

    Reply
    1. reasonbeing from Duluth, MN, United States Post author

      I had the back-up account first. There have been a decent amount of atheists suspended on Twitter, and not all of them were obnoxious trolls. My understanding of this scenario, which may be wrong, is that suspension follows after a certain number of blocks. I have enough theists and RWNJ's who find me, start a conversation, then block me. It happened yesterday, and I did nothing to provoke, it, have no idea where the guy came from (he didn't reference a tweet of mine), threw three or 4 tweets of hate filled nonsense, that I honestly found comical and mentioned that to him, then he blocked me. (I would say this level of hate is similar to what I found in my unofficial study).

      I have no idea how many times that needs to happen before I get suspended. Like Cephus said above I don't go looking for trouble, just conversation at times. I usually don't pick nutjobs for that, and those never end in my being blocked. It is often things out of my control that get me blocked…

      I also agree with you about wanting to talk with those people. I would also add, that can't talk with those people. This bothers me. I have no idea how the GOP is going to ditch the crazy right and become a productive member of national discourse. Somehow the Left has been able to do this, at least in some cases…ie PETA doesn't speak as loudly as say the NRA. I agree with modeling ourselves after the LGBT community in a sense, and they were never able to reach the far right either…those people are unreachable. To be fair, the people chained to a tree on the far left are also not reachable, but also don't seem to wield the same power.

      Reply
  2. Loren Miller from Bedford, OH, United States

    You've got to be taught
    To hate and fear,
    You've got to be taught
    From year to year,
    It's got to be drummed
    In your dear little ear
    You've got to be carefully taught.

    You've got to be taught to be afraid
    Of people whose eyes are oddly made,
    And people whose skin is a diff'rent shade,
    You've got to be carefully taught.

    You've got to be taught before it's too late,
    Before you are six or seven or eight,
    To hate all the people your relatives hate,
    You've got to be carefully taught!

    The above is a song from "South Pacific" which I first heard something over three years ago, courtesy of NPR and a story they did about it. Back in 1949 when Rodgers and Hammerstein wrote that song, it was about skin color and cultural differences, but it can just as easily be about sexual orientation or belief or lack of it or any issue where prejudice and bigotry have unwelcome parts of the conversation.

    And those you attempted to engage have been taught, though I should probably say, "indoctrinated," to believe that atheists are everything that Psalm 14 says we are. Indeed they have had that drilled into them "before you are six or seven or eight" to believe what their parents or congregation or whatever group believe about atheists and atheism, in some cases to the point where shaking that belief off becomes a near impossibility. It doesn't matter that they've never actually MET an atheist, seen how they live or how they conduct themselves in real life. All that matters is this overriding imperative they have had imprinted on them by parents and culture.

    They won't even dare to evaluate your arguments for themselves, because to do so would be to introduce doubt into their own equation. Doubt is intolerable and questioning forbidden for them. Either action exposes them to the perils of hell which is the primary "stick" of their carrot-and-stick system. You might as well have asked them to slit their own throats.

    If it seems as though you got a programmed response, it's because That's EXACTLY What It Was – PROGRAMMED. After all … "You've Got To Be Carefully Taught."

    Reply
    1. JohnMWhite from Ann Arbor, MI, United States

      A very good comment and I agree completely that for the most part, these responses are preprogrammed and are simply visceral reactions based on what people have had drilled into their heads for much of their life. However, I have to disagree that they probably have never met an atheist. I know you didn’t quite mean that literally, but I think it’s worth pointing out that in all likelihood they have met several, and simply didn’t notice. Atheists are pretty normal. They not the snarling hedonistic demons with no sense of right and wrong they seem to think, and without the topic coming up it’s unlikely they’d ever be able to tell with most atheists. I imagine, for those whose brains have more than one layer, the fact that they cannot easily discern an atheist from a ‘good’ Christian troubles them deeply.

      Reply
      1. JohnMWhite from Ann Arbor, MI, United States

        I agree. Extremism and walls of aggression can appear in any dialogue that has two fairly entrenched sides, but I find it far more rare to come across atheists or agnostics who are entirely dismissive than I do religious people. Usually I find atheist blogs and forums are willing to have a conversation to a point, but they never get the chance and can lose patience quickly because somebody will quote the bible at them after being told three times that it doesn’t matter to atheists and they’ve got to get a source that isn’t citing itself as its own authority. There’s also the fact that right wing Christians usually throw out what they think is the trump card of “you will go to hell” and then wonder why nobody wants to talk to them when they seem gleeful about the concept of their big bully of a father tormenting people for ever and ever and ever for losing a celestial guessing game. One side seems demonstrably more guilty of lacking civility than the other.

        Reply
      1. sbj1964 from Madison, TN, United States

        Great timeing RB,just a day ago guy I work with who is a Christian fundamentalist right wing conservatard said in my presence that he "Hates Liberals,and Atheist,and if a war started out today he would start killing them all." I asked him why he hates people that think differently then he does.He looked at me,and said "God tells him to."Well how do you argue with that?They seem to have so much hatred for a religion of peace.

        Reply
  3. Jimmyone from Talking Rock, GA, United States

    I've had a couple "altercations" with some of the so-called Chrisitans….I grew up in the RLDS…not the Mormons, but the group who didn't go to Utah…I am stunned by the hate and vitriol spewed by these followers of Christ…I mentioned Mathew 7:15-20…and like WOW…it was on…Now I'm not a Bible scholar by any means…I was able to tolerate the first level of attacks…mostly from the Old Testament…I shot back some Ezekiel and Jeramiah…I was wondering if anyone else heard the heads explode…Now, I don't do this normally, but it really pisses me to see them pervert a book that is about tolerance and LOVE thy neighbor shit…I know the cherry picking that goes into their insanity…it is all over the net…I can hardly go to town any more…Paonia used to hold the Guiness book of World Records for having the most churches per capita…yet that has done nothing to temper the hate in our town…Hate for the Tree Huggers to the Ni**er lovers…And Jesus wept….

    (sorry for being a O/T some)

    Reply
  4. roger from Vernon, AL, United States

    I am a born again Christian and I am a democrat. i agree with you on many grounds – I think the church and the far right has taken over the republican party and it is in a death spiral. How ever i must tell you, i would be remiss if I didnt. There really is a true and living and loving God – albeit he isnt a Republican nor is he a Democrat – But I believe he thinks more like a Democrat than todays republican – I am very political, have now voted for Obama and truly believe we have the correct leader. Praise God in the highest for he loves you as well fellow traveler.

    Reply
    1. JohnMWhite from Ann Arbor, MI, United States

      Why would you think this true and loving god thinks more like Democrats than Republicans when this god’s autobiography talks about him murdering everyone on earth, ordering his followers to kill and plunder and rape foreigners with impunity and kill their own kind if they breach arbitrary rules like having consensual sex with the wrong person? There’s a specific party in the United States that is pro-death penalty, eager for war, started a needless war over a lie, has their own ‘rape caucus’ and wants to control what people do in the bedroom, so I’m not sure why you think god is more like the other one, unless by saying he’s like a Democrat you mean he’s surprisingly impotent even when in control.

      Here’s the thing – words have meanings. Love has a definition, and it is incompatible with letting those you ‘love’ suffer when it is in your power to prevent that suffering, and it certainly is incompatible with preparing a place for the ones you ‘love’ to boil and burn for ever and ever if they don’t worship you. You may claim you don’t believe god does that, but then you’re just ignoring bits of the exact same source you got god from in the first place, and again we have the issue of words having meanings and books meaning what they say. The right wing are only an extreme form of this same problem: religious apologists in general require that definitions be ignored or twisted, that facts become a matter of opinion, in order to maintain their own religiously informed point of view. It’s not a big stretch for the Republicans to ignore “love thy neighbour” when moderates already are happy to completely ignore what the word ‘love’ actually means, or jettison the part of the same book that says “kill thy neighbour and rape his virgin daughters”.

      Reply
  5. sidney18511 from Hollywood, FL, United States

    Robert Altemeyer studied this faction of the right wing for many years. Since 1966 actually. He wrote a book which he made available free online. It explains how and why these people think the way they do, how dangerous they would be to this country if they took power, and some advice on how you can break through.

    Theauthoritarians.com

    Reply
  6. 2curious from San Jose, CA, United States

    Lots of luck having rational dialog with ill-rational people. I suppose it's a learning process in our need to converse with others.
    It's my impression that that Fundies are much like addicts. Its not so much the notion of Christ but simply a group fix and behaving badly is a defense of their lack of faith, much like an addict in denial of addiction.

    Reply
  7. Chris from New York, NY, United States

    Hi, Reasonbeing. My name is Chris. I was reading over your post and I happen to agree with pretty much every bit of it. Let me say that I am not an atheist. I believe in a higher being. I suppose I call it God just to give it name. I do not necessarily believe that God is some old grey bearded spirit living in the sky but rather a higher form of my own consciousness, a universal consciousness that lives and communes within my own being. I believe that science is just at the cusp of discovering this energy within the quantum universe. There is energy and there are atoms. One begets the other, the seen and the unseen, the spirit and the flesh, etc etc. I also consider myself to be a Christian, not because I worship Jesus (Jesus never ever asked anyone to worship him) but because I am grateful to him. When I was in my darkest hour it was my faith in the fact that jesus died in order to free me that actually did free me from bondage. Whether he actually ever did die for me is irrelevant. Christianity is a faith based religion. I believe that Jesus knew of this higher consciousness also and tried to explain it to a people who at the time just had no way of understanding what he was talking about. He did the best he could. It was my faith in Christ that led me to understand that this energy has always been alive within me as well as in every other life. That God has never judged me of anything at all. It has only ever been me who judges myself. I have always been free to just live my life and God has always been happy to just live his life right along with me, through me. The Christian Right would tell me that this isn't Christian at all and that I have a one way ticket straight to hell but I believe that if Jesus was alive today he would just look at these people and say, "What the hell is a Christian?"

    Reply
  8. thetinfoilhatsociety from Mayer, AZ, United States

    One thing you really must keep in mind is that these people are AFRAID. And they generally have a large amount of locked up self hatred that squeezes out at everyone else around them who doesn't also live in that fear and self loathing. You, because you present a world view and a way of living that doesn't incorporate fear of the unknown into it, are also to be afraid of. Thus, you get the brunt of that loathing — in the form of most un-Christlike epithets and threats.

    I think the most important thing to keep in mind is that, however much those of us who aren't xtian might think we're better/smarter/more open minded/fill-in-the-blank, we still have common ground with them. We have children, parents, jobs, bills, and worries. Many of our worries are the same just as many of our angers are the same. I personally am still furious that there has been absolutely no legal accountability on the part of our government in going after the Wall Street executives who used other people's money to take our economy off a cliff, and I know many many 'teabaggers' as well as dedicated Christians and atheists who also are just as angry about being left to hold the financial bag for those who were behaved in such an irresponsible, not to mention illegal, way. We may differ on whether or not 'the gays' should be allowed to marry, but I usually can make them laugh when I say that I think they have as much right to suffer the misery of married life as I do. It doesn't change how they feel but it does give them a different perspective that doesn't conjure up images of what ever scares them, but rather the often drudgery of married life. Let's face it, those of us who have been married more than five years know that there are months at a time when you just have to grit your teeth and push through til it gets good again.

    There is a Buddhist saying that it is more important to understand than to be understood. They will never understand us, but understanding them can help us to start a conversation that can lead to real, lasting change in our culture.

    Reply
    1. Chris from New York, NY, United States

      It's interesting that you should say that because the things that Jesus talked about had a lot of Buddhist undertones. He talked about loving and respecting everyone, from all walks of life because really they are just like you. He was a liberal. He was a rebel. He went against the status quo. He let them know that he wasn't going to be afraid of them, defiant all the way till the end. What he gave the people of his time was something to believe in. I mean this was a brutal time to be alive. These people were in actual fear of their lives every single day. The Romans were ruthless. They were in fear of being killed by the Romans and then also in fear of going to hell afterwards by the strict dogma of the Jews. I mean it was just constant fear and misery. Jesus gave them a way out. He was a wild card. He couldn't save everyone from the barbarism of the Roman's but he showed them they didn't have to fear death, and in not fearing death you don't have to fear life either. And he did so by example. Then not only did he give them a spiritual platform for subsiding their fear but by becoming a martyr he actually brought about real change. He reshaped the world long after his death. Today he gets a pretty bum rap because christian conservatives do not teach what he taught. They teach what his students and his student's students John and Paul taught and everything else that has been watered down since then. I don't think they had the same insight or understanding that Jesus had. A lot of Jesus' teachings really followed along much of the teachings of the Buddha in truth. 'You are what you believe yourself to be. Your life is yours as you shape it.' And then He gave them a promise to believe in. 'Do not fear hell because I have saved you from it. All you have to do is believe it.' I mean how simple is that? and yet so effective. What he did for the people of his time was nothing less than heroic. He never told anyone that they had to worship him or even believe in him. He just said I'm here if you need me.

      Reply
  9. Chris from New York, NY, United States

    As far as marriage is concerned a true marriage is in the creation of a life. That's your true union of the flesh. I mean really? It shouldn't be that difficult to understand the biblical sense of a union of the flesh. It's the creation of a child. Everything else is just scribble on paper. Of course gay people should have the same civil liberties as anyone. Let them have a legal contract to share their stuff. Why not? But a true union in flesh and spirit is a child guys. I mean come on. And sure gay people should have the right to try as hard as they want to make a child. I just don't really see it happening for them. That would be a true act of God.

    Reply
    1. Dmizzo from Santa Rosa, CA, United States

      So men and women who don't want to have kids shouldn't be allowed to get married? Infertile couples, not allowed to get married? Elderly couples who perhaps lost a spouse and want to get remarried, not allowed? Just because "a true" marriage means the creation of life to you doesn't mean everyone has to agree. You are allowed to follow whatever religious beliefs you want – but I'm not if they happen to disagree with yours? Can you see how unfair and silly that seems?

      Reply
        1. Dmizzo from Santa Rosa, CA, United States

          Your only argument that a union of "flesh and spirit" (which is what, btw?) is a baby is rooted in your religion. Not logic. I don't share your religion, but I share the right of every American to be treated equally under the law. Unless you want to rewrite to laws to take "marriage" entirely away from government and replace every marriage with a legal contract of domestic partnership, I am entitled to the same rights as you. The same titles as well. That's logic. The notion that marriage is about a child is not historical, not traditional, and only your definition. You are entitled to it, but you don't get to impose it on me. That's America. If you don't like it, there are many theocratic countries that you could relocate to. Your religion has no place in the laws of this country. Think about if Christians weren't in the majority, and laws were being put on the books based on the Muslim or Shinto religion – laws that you then had to be subject to, despite the fact that you believed in something different. You wouldn't have a problem with that?

          Reply
          1. Chris from New York, NY, United States

            I was just pointing out that the biblical sense of marriage is in the creation of life because the bible states that marriage is the union of the flesh. To become one flesh. This can only happen in the creation of a child. It's just science. Nothing magical here.

          2. Dmizzo from Santa Rosa, CA, United States

            Okay. That's your definition according to your religion. Fine. I don't share your definition or your religion. I don't share your (misguided in my view) assertion that it's "science" either – which – speaking as a scientist – is fairly nonsensical when pointing to a social construct like marriage. Anyway, you're welcome to your personal definition, but you are not welcome to impose it on others who believe differently, or classify others to some secondary status based on that definition. That's what's great about America. What the bible states has absolutely no place in public discourse, but you can worship however you want in private.

          3. Chris from New York, NY, United States

            You see now you are a perfect illustration of why it is important to not only sound out the letters on the page but to actually understand what it is you are reading. You didn't get very high marks in reading comprehension, did you? You're not bothering to actually read the words because you have already preformed your opinion based on the very first sentence. That really isn't a very good practice for a "scientist". Is Dmizzo an example of the intellectuals you guys have been referring to? Wow!

          4. Dmizzo from Santa Rosa, CA, United States

            Condescension – the sign of a well reasoned argument. You make statements like "it's just science," but since A) it isn't, and B) you can't back up your assertions with anything but religious nonsense, you try to change the subject and pretend you haven't been understood. You've been well understood. Your opinion is simple, dude. Your "argument" is simple.

            The problem is they just don't make very much sense.

          5. Dmizzo from Santa Rosa, CA, United States

            You can't actually, or I'm guessing you would've. Saying I can eat a hundred hard boiled eggs isn't much of argument until I see you actually eat them, pal.

          6. Chris from New York, NY, United States

            It took you quite some time to look up the word, condescension. It's just too bad that you have the wrong definition. Condescension actually means an attitude of patronizing superiority or disdain.
            Thanks for proving my argument that you have no reading comprehension skills.

          7. Dmizzo from Santa Rosa, CA, United States

            You really have zero self-awareness, huh? If you're doing a bit, it's funny, Chris. I'll give you that.

          8. Dmizzo from Santa Rosa, CA, United States

            Oops, someone proved you wrong. Quick, call them names! Quick, change the subject!

            You're adorable.

          9. Chris from New York, NY, United States

            You do understand that we are talking about a social construct that was created by religion. Right? I mean before ancient Israel there really wasn't any such thing. Tribes just kind of mingled and fooled around with whoever or whatever they wanted to. Marriage was designed in order to be sure that there was production of legitimate offspring between a man and a woman and therefore a legitimate heir could be identified. I mean but this is just a little thing called fact that shouldn't be too difficult for a "scientist" to look up and verify for himself. Of course the so called scientist would have to be able to comprehend what he is reading.

          10. Dmizzo from Santa Rosa, CA, United States

            Wrong, actually. The concept of marriage predates recorded history and *gasp* the bible. Some early societies allowed polygamy and group marriage. It was also used in reference to the sale of chattel, such as women or livestock. But don't let the actual facts impact your smug satisfaction. It's really a winning attitude.

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  11. Umbra Lazari from Algonac, MI, United States

    "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth…."

    Nativity scenes are a violation of their own tenets. How ironic it would be if a Nativity scene were to be placed next to Judge Roy Moore's monument to the 10 Commandments

    Reply
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